Re: Oxygen delivery and tissue ?

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: Hi Dan thanks for your well made point. : I see , the way you formulate , you may be on the same line as myself. I do not believe in absolute statements , but more in questioning some possible answers. : As You p[oint out, as does Frank , the ultimate limitation seems to be the oxygen deliver in the activated muscles. The point I like to make is, that the limit may be not always in this muscle , but on the way to this muscle. Ex. Altitude could be a limiting factor for peformance ( lower Oxygen partial pressure. ) : In fact biking on sea level with independant pedals may be for an athlete no problem , but when we moved him up on over 2000 m he suddenly had again some limitation. : Summary : If we work with independant pedals , ( and we like them very much )the goal is to produce a test result at the end, where there is no difference between :Max HR , LBP HR , Max Lac, Max Watt. LBP Watt, Recovery speed of Lac. PO2 and all the small tests we can do as hobby coaches. : Once I achieve this , than the athlete does not feel a difference between the nornmal and the independant pedals any more. : Point 4 on Franks replay makes an other interesting statement. " I see no benefit to ever train on regular or rotor cranks. " : I believe that at least for the moment there may be some problem for a MTB guy to race on independant pedals. Jumping over trees , standing on the pedals with your legs both on the bottom and so on may be stll a little bit challanging to say the least. : Time trial with a lot of corners , Sprint on the track with a standing situation before the big push and so on may also show some challanging moments. : In reply 5 Frank writes : It is impossible to think about form over an entire circle. : For all coaches working with coordination : that's exactly the advantage on independant pedals . We practice 1 leg forward , 1 backward. Joggling with balls and use independant pedals in all different way. If we would not be able to separate a movement from one leg to another, we would not have a lot of drummers in the music ( Arms and legs separate ) and so on . Exactly this neuronal ( coordination challange ) make this independant pedals so great. The biking motion in the actual joints would never go on a perfect circle. It is forced on to a perfect circle with the system we use.This produces some forces for example in the knee joint , think anterior draw , respectively open chain motion in the knee , with the stress on the ACL. ) : Now once I have an optimal push / pull force , resp. eliminate all the " weakness" in my active motion and the coordination, the next step could perhaps be , how do I eliminate the weak " force distribution point on that circle produced by the striked situation of the pedal construction. Thats' where the people on Rotor crank where working on. : See our small study on the web site about TE ( Training equipment ) and RE Racing equipment. : Back to Dan's questions of limiting possibility on the breathing system. That specific question was one of our topic in the last camp. : The questions about improvement of performance may perhaps really be , to find out what system or structure for the moment is the most limiting factor for my performance.( Mental strength may have to be included here as well ) : Is it alttitude ( immediatly ) change . : Is it my local muscle situation, Hip flexor as Frank mentioned. : Is it may respiratory system as Dan asks. : Is it my coordination ( High RPM ) and so on. That's what we try to do , when we set up the next few days or weeks in our training schedule. : Besides this question , we try to find out , where we need the smallest amount of time for the most benefit for the moment. We try to see , whether a structural training will benefit more than a functional push. Do we have the time for a structural improvement or do we need to " hurry " up for a functional respond. : The one possible key for improvement may still be not in the actual stress , but in the time after the stress I can give to my body to have a resonable respond. Shortening or speed up recovery and adaptation may be one part to consider in any training schedule. ( Is less more ? ) : Independant pedals for us are clear stuctural trainings , but at the beginning there will and perhaps has to be some functional respond ( Enzyme activity ) : There are very interwsting studies out there with the point , that any stress at the beginning may first produce a cataboilc phase over a certain time , before the actual structural anabolic phase will kick in. This research group claims , that any of this catabolic phases will be between 4 - 8 weeks at least. If this statement is true , than at least we have to ask ourself , whether a lot of the research out there, over times of 4 - 8 weeks give the real conclusion on the effect of training. ( Remember Dudley's 8 weeks , compared with Hool. 12 weeks. ) : This above statements pushes Herb and myself to the conclusion , that we only use changes or discussions on test or results , where we have at leaste 2 - 3 years datas or at least 500 and more test results. : I hope we may once star to discuss FACT as the way Herb and myslef are developing this system. : For people using it or " learned " it a few years back , they may see a lot of change. FACT is not something you educate somebody ( to repeat ) FACT is something you have to learn to think with it and come up to use your own knowledge and critical approach. (One guy , who is far ahead of us in this matter is Steve Neal, in Ontario, he is one of the " FACT " guys who helps thinking and developing. So for Dan you are already well into this process , once you start collecting datas on this. : Thanks to Frank Days invention ( independant ) pedals we actually collectied 100 dreds of datas in the field of cycling coordination. A lot of the measured information often conficts with , what we learned , and it is sometimes hard to go back to your athletes a week after you convinced them about something and say , hey guys we may be wrong. : The only way you are able to dio this if you not coach the athlete , but think with them together and staedy have to courage to change and try. : One reason for development stagnation is repetition on already done stresses. : Last but not least I hope we may get some responde about Franks lactate buffering with bicarbonate and the question whether there may be other means of lactate removal ( resp. lactic acid metabolisme . ) : Cheers Juerg : I still use the point of , minimal time to prove read and terrible typing skills , plus thinking in another language , when I love to think. So I hope you can go trough all of the above and please come back with some more ideas.

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